But the other thing they complained about was higher property taxes than other places; this was another negative. Also, VA was looking in to some regulations regarding livestock that would have made their endeavors in this area impossible…wish I could remember those details! I am truly touched by your story and your love for your son and his new life. I am working on a show for Discovery Channel and would like very much to talk with you in hopes of helping other parents, families understand when their child moves in a direction not so familiar, i.
Amish, and how they move forward. I cam be reached at cccapo earthlink. Even though your message is only five words long, it makes me think that you speak from a specific observation or experience.
If you are willing to say more off line, my email is rstevick messiah. Mach goot. Please, please do not do it. And since he is a relative newcomer Elmo Stoll recommended that newcomers do not speak up until they have been members for ten years this would have been doubly so. He would have been viewed as a troublemaker, even more so because it was not his home congregation.
Having said all that, I have always been quite uncomfortable in an all German service when people who speak only English are present. The Old Order Mennonite group where our family is, have changed considerably in the last forty years in that respect. Although there was not as much English as sometimes, the reading and preaching were about one third English. The practices of the Old Order church are under constant pressure. People leave because of discontent, marry English speaking partners, or raise their children in English.
Now, because of their earlier discontent, the church needs to change its practices to accommmodate those people at weddings and funerals. I would encourage Anne to be supportive of her son and not read too much into this issue. Ed was attracted to something in that Old Order church and by making an issue over the German service, he would have been helping to destroy part of the very thing that had attracted him in the first place.
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Keeping a low profile and focusing on the things that led Ed to make the big commitment is sage advice. Thank you, Osiah. Yes, this is very well said! Yes, I agree, it is an easy choice; better the strictness inside than the corruption outside. It is for a very good reason they do not use english. Interesting article here. I would love to hear more on this story and what the family has and is expierencing. It had to have been a huge shock to have their college educated son, decide to join the Amish.
Would love to hear how he came about meeting the Amish and his decison to join. Hi Erik! This is a very neet post! We will be moving in the next 2 months. And what his parents experinced is what our familys are going threw.
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They are happy for us in some ways and others they tend to be a little upset with. Also they wonder why we want to live our lives so hard each day. They will be a little over an hour north of us. So we would need to hire a driver or they pick us up. There is alot to give up, and we understand that, but they seems not too. The dutch langish is another thing. We are learning easy words right now. But as soon as we get moved they think we will pick up pretty good when were around it all day. We will be renting a doddy house and their will be 6 childeren sharing the same land.
This is a huge step for us but we have been in a slow process of trying to join the amish for over 2 years now. We started out in a mennonite church, then to beachy and now Old Order Amish. It has been quite a journey. Not an easy one but as I said before with God all things are possible. Thanks again for the post God be with you Rachel. On the question all I can think to say is that weddings are very important to the Amish. They have been doing weddings this way for s of years. When an outsider marries an Amish, it was their choice.
So to be Amish I have to drop the english ways and comform to theirs. But the most important thing is is that God brought these two together for what reason we do not know yet. This truly is an amazing story and journey thus far. I would like to talk with you more about your new life. If you have a moment I would appreciate it very much. What a fascinating story. What an astonishing exercise of tactfulness and patience on the parts of all the family involved.
My wife and I are sorry about your disappointment and understandable reactions. If the couple had married in a New Order Amish church, at least one of the sermons would have been in English. We had a translator at one of the progressive Old Order weddings we attended in Virginia—actually four experienced translators that spelled each other off after about 20 minutes. It was very helpful and interesting to us, but this is definitely the exception and we did not expect it.
As you indicated and experienced, some expectations, such as yours,can result in disappointment. This is probably one reason that most Amish are generally less than enthusiastic to see their sons and daughters marry converts. We wish your family patience, and even joy, as you encounter and work through future challenging experiences.
Aus liebe. Wow, interesting. I would say that took much understanding and acceptance. I have been to 2 Amish weddings and they are blast. Amish do not change easily. Incorporating English into the ceremony where it has never been would have been so new, conservative Amish just could not and can not accept that. In a place like LaGrange or Holmes Co. Anne, I would be very interested in your story of how Ed got to court Ruth. I was told that the church cannot prevent 2 members from dating each other, nor 2 non-members from dating.
A completely different issue is the acceptance of parents and other family members. I have seen a forbidden marriage turn a young lady very sour, until she won her way. Very unusual. Interesting post today! Anne, I feel for you that they did not provide a translator. I also would love to hear more about how this transition to becoming Amish took place. I hope Ed and Ruth have a wonderful life together! It is an autobiography about how Marlene, who was not raised Amish, joins the Amish church, marries, etc. Anne, do you know if anyone wrote down the sermon? If it was written, could you see a copy of it?
A book has been written about parents who tried to go plainer though not Amish and home-school, but the grandparents felt the grandchildren were being deprived. Hello Everyone, Thanks for the many thoughtful responses! Linda, yes, the sermon was written down, though there was a great deal of it that our translator did not write.
I have a copy of it in my folder at home. Lance, you are correct that this is a very traditional group. Yes, I will tell you all more about the courtship when Erik thinks the time is right. It was very interesting, very sweet! Richard, your comments are right on. Also, our son is fluent now in both languages and often serves as a translator for a service, when English speakers attend.
Rachel, may God bless your family as you move forward into this adventure. It will be an adventure for all! Ed carried around flashcards for months just to assist with vocabulary. He joined the group about 6 years ago and it took him about 6 months to be comfortable with the language. I think mastering the language was helpful to him, in providing acceptance by the Amish community. Lee Ann, yes, Ed had a big smile for that photo, which tells the whole story! The only thing you are missing out on was the accompanying giggle! He was OO Amish which is also the church I grew up in.
Most, but not all, of the guys at the shop have some Mennonite background so would have experience with the Pennsylvania Dutch language. I believe I was the only one that could understand the service very well. The language spoken at church, funeral, and wedding services is a much higher German than the everyday PA Dutch.
As an interesting note, the main funeral service was held by one of the business owners so the guys all knew him well. She said it is very very difficult to switch the languages when you are so used to always doing it the same way. Just my two cents. Oh, and what happens if Ed should ever God forbid pass on to his eternal reward before his parents? Weddings and funerals are not just for the sake of traditions, they are also for family.
Thanks for the comments Rachel. I totally agree. Especially in a community that so deeply values family life! Traditions are rightfully there to protect the deeper values, and have an important place; but ultimately they are a tool, not an end in themselves. The Amish are after all, just people. Mary, you are so right! And I know he has already met with some disillusionment. But he still feels this is the life God has called him to. It just seems to fit who he is! I read this posting to my son, Mark, who joined the Amish, also.
Also, he wanted to know what community they are a part of. Regarding the speaking of German in the service, Mark said that this caused a controversy in his community. Not too long ago there was a wedding in the community and most of the service was in English. Both sermons were in English. A lot of the people in his community and the ministers in the other districts did not appreciate that most of the wedding service was in English and the clear indication was given that this was not to happen, again.
A part of the service in English but not the whole service. But this was an Amish wedding.
An Amish wedding is a church service with marriage as its theme. Amish services are in German. Mark asked me to relate, if Ed had married a girl of the Greek Orthodox faith and the wedding was in a Greek Orhodox church. Just something to ponder.
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Mark asked me to mention that years ago when he was in college he took a class on Eastern Othodoxy. As part of the class they visited a Greek Orthodox church service, a Russian Orthodox church service, and a Serbian Orthodox church service. Even though there was an entire college class visiting, none of whom could speak the Greek or Russian or Serbian, yet the entire church services were conducted in the languages common to those churches. Another incident that Mark asked me to relate to you that caused controversy in his community. It seems that awhile back there was a wedding and a number of the young folks that helped out as table waiters, etc.
I guess those are churches that allow cars and electricity and such Beachy and Mennonite churches? Hi Don, So interesting to hear you are in a similar position! That is, we did not at all expect the service to be in English! We did however, hope that we would be able to understand the main point of what was going forward, through the use of an interpreter which had been our experience in the past.
When parents have poured themselves into raising a child, attempted to model Christian marriage, and taught and prayed for! For instance, in a wedding, the two individuals make vows to each other. The church is gathered to witness those vows and it matters that these things are said aloud and witnessed by loving Christian family and friends. At this ceremony, we only knew they were makeing vows because they both stood up and came up to the minister; we had no idea of what they were saying! As parents, who are part of the accountability structure for the couple, should we not have known and understood what they promised each other?
Seems rather basic to me…. And if outsiders wish to come in, they cannot bring their worldly things along, like immodest dressing or hair cuts that call attention to the individual.
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All of our family members who came were careful to dress appropriately. Pathway Publishers prints a book that has the marriage vows that a variety of Amish use and they are also translated into English. Also, the baptism vow your son took are there too. Also by Pathway, it is a explanation of the Amish faith and beliefs. Prices and shipping amounts are about 3 yr old, I hope they have not changed. It seems some people may tire of Amish traditions. Did you ever think about it that the world has traditions, too?
Way back in I joined a religious order in the Catholic Church and the ceremony when I made my vows was in monastery, language Latin…lasted about 2 hours. My family ate with other families at a picnic outside the monastery…I ate with the community in the dining room. Things have changed now since Vatican Council II. I visit the Amish frequently and often time I see the similarities with both of our faith customs. I go to weddings, but arrive at the last 20 minutes where the vows are pronounced….
I know that the Amish way of life is very different than the one of our contemporary world, but I think that they have something very very special. In their own way of life they have kept a simplicity and community life that is appealing to many in the modern world who often feel alone and connected to all kinds of devices for community and communication.
I have come to appreciate their way of life as a very rich way to live out the gospel and one which brings a lot of peace and happiness for most of them. My advice to Anne and her family is to stay in contact with them by writing….. I would hope that after several years you would be able to see a happy son and a peace in his life that is different.
The Amish do not have formal education after the 8th grade…but believe me that for many there is further education through private reading and study. They are quite intelligent and well informed on a whole lot of topics….
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God bless you all and I commend you to attending the wedding. I really appreciated hearing your story. And thanks too for the advice. I had to chuckle when you suggested we write him letters and not depend on electronic devices, as the ONLY way we can communicate with him is through letters. He does not even have a phone we can call in an emergency! When my husband, Malcolm, was visiting him last fall, the mayor dropped by for a visit, and told Malcolm on the side how much they loved having the Amish there, and how much he personally enjoyed Ed.
Thanks to Erik and Anne for the subject of this post. Thanks also to all commenters here. I watched V slowly evolve into an amish woman starting in puberty. Her father was a member of a Mennonite Church where my grandmother attended , but he worked for a Navy Contractor very controversial in our day. She attended LMHS with me, a few years ahead, and by her senior year, V was completely dressed for her future role. After graduation, she found an Amish boy, and the last I knew of her, she had settled down in the Gap area.
The other experience I have is with J, who came from Arkansas to study here in Philadelphia. She was my housemate for a while. Apparently, since she was beyond traditional courting age, she was permitted to go to college. The last I know of her is when I delivered her household goods to her in VA, about 15 years ago. With both women, there was a cutting off after a while. I guess, as time passed we had less and less common with each other. Just a couple observations from our experiences with outsiders English seeking to become Amish.
Generally, communities in the midwest, especially in parts of Ohio and Indiana, welcomes seekers more than Lancaster does. For example, one of our friends spent nine months among the Montour County Amish and actually learned the Deitsch, but he never felt comfortable enough to join. I think if he had gone to the midwest, especially among the New Order Amish, he would have been Amish today.
Pearisburg, VA, has been an Old Order settlement that has welcomed outsiders and has nurtured quite a number over the years. Sadly, they have experienced significant unrest and disharmony among the membership, resulting in a major spaulding or split. Incidentally, they are the church that provided the four translators for the wedding and at least two translators every other time we attended church there.
Most Amish groups do not encourage seekers because of the cultural gap the converts face. Rich Stevick rstevick messiah. Rick, it was so good to hear your broader perspective on these Amish settlements and their history with welcoming converts. My son was indeed welcomed into the Pearisburg community, and had another friend there who was in a similar position. This young man converted after meeting and working with an Amish girl. For Ed, it was love of the community and the rich family lives he saw, plus the way church life was structured.
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When the group desired to modernize he had a huge dilemma, but determined that he did not convert in order to live the same life he had known before. I had almost forgotten that this was also known as the Pearisburg group, as we usually referred to it by the tiny town closest to it, Whitegate. We were especially saddened by the events in the group that lead up to the split; the more so because it meant Ed would find a more suitable community elsewhere, and it most likely would not be in Virgina! What used to be a 3 hour trip is now a 3 day trip!
Again, thanks so much for your comments here! I found this experience very fascinating to read about as my own wedding was in Dutch Netherlands Dutch , and I did not understand a word of the entire ceremony at the time. Now I speak Dutch fluently and it would have been nice to have a written copy of the ceremony so I could read it now and figure out all that I promised my husband. Inspiring Erik, so glad you got this conversation started. I would like to talk with you about your experience in this situation. I am working on a show for Discovery and we are looking to talk with folks like you.
If you are at all interested I think it can help a lot of other people that don not find these chat rooms. I am looking forward to talking with you. Sign up. View cart Checkout. Ever since the serpent tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden, humanity has been seduced by illusions of immortality.
Stripping away these deceptions, the Bible reveals how we can face death with confidence and be victorious over it. Christians need not fear death, teaches Alistair Begg. Now, can I invite you to turn with me again to Genesis? Speak, O God, we pray, to our waiting hearts, and where there is no sense of waiting, create it within us, we pray. Come to our expectant souls, administer your grace; and where there is no expectancy, forge it in us we ask, so that with light shining on the path of our lives afresh, we may walk in obedience to your Word and live in the joyful light of your provision.
He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Where did this strange notion appear from? Is this something God really said? Do you really believe that God has spoken in this way? And yet, reality slaps us on the face, hits us with a stark and stirring, crushing blow. Old age, the onset of illness, strips away all of our illusions of immortality. Every funeral procession that catches us in our rearview mirror is a reminder to us of the fact that all of these pagan mythologies have no basis or substance to them at all, and indeed if we are to find any answer for this issue of death, we must, indeed, look somewhere else.
And as we said two weeks ago, it is foolish, really, to spend all of our life trying to learn how to live when we have never settled the issue of learning how to die, and we went further to suggest that until we have learned how to die, then we could never really learn how to live. Now we said three things of Jacob, one of which we gave time to and left two behind. We said that Jacob knew when he was leaving. We then said that we would pick it up at our next point, which is where we now find ourselves.
Not only did Jacob know when he was leaving, but he knew what he asking—he knew what he was asking. So, will you notice with me his concern then, first of all, about the place of his burial? Simply a concern for tidiness on the part of Jacob? Certainly not, because the record provided for us of his final seventeen years of life enjoyed within the framework of Egypt are wonderful years. So, if it is not simply a desire for tidiness, and if it is not in reaction to perhaps a bitter and unhappy experience in Egypt, why then would Jacob be so concerned to be buried back in Canaan?
Jacob wanted to ensure that his family after him would be fully aware of the fact that they did not belong in the land of Egypt—they did not belong in the land of Egypt; they belonged somewhere else. This was fairly stretching for Abraham insofar as he was already an elderly man, and his body was as good as dead, and his wife was past childbearing age. And so as Jacob gets near to the end of his days, he wants to ensure that those who follow after him will be absolutely clear about this. Do you know who you are this morning? Or do you live with that sense of alienation that is almost palpable in our contemporary culture, that sense of facelessness, that sense of emptiness and meaninglessness that is all wrapped up in this transient human experience?
And you have a sneaking suspicion that no one knows who you are, no one cares who you are; that you were born without reason, you will die by chance, and you will enter into oblivion. And it is small wonder, then, that you find yourself quaking at the prospect of the jangling of the keychain of the undertaker. But Jacob knew who he was: He was Israel. Do not be afraid to go down to Egypt, for I will make you into a great nation there. Take me out of here and take me there. And so look at chapter 50 and a quite wonderful and dramatic description of this funeral procession.
Those of you who remember the funeral of Winston Churchill—was it ? It was the great funeral to end all funerals. Horses and chariots and carriages and soldiers and dignitaries and everyone in the world was there that could be there. The pagans, you see, will never really understand when the believers deal with death the way the Bible says we ought to deal with it. Thanks be to God he has given us victory in the Lord Jesus Christ! Look somewhere else.
Why would you look good then? I apologize in advance; send them. To live in the world and to become of the world; to become friends of the world and enemies with God; to like it so much here—our successes and our finance and our opportunities and all these different things—that we bear scant difference to any who are around us? There should be, for us as believers, that about our approach to death in every dimension certain things that leave no doubt in the minds of the watching world that we understand that death is not oblivion, that it is not entry to a realm where no voice can be heard and no smile can be seen.
Rather, for the believer, it is to be reunited with our loved ones. It is an opportunity for the Christian to proclaim that the King of Heaven has come to down to earth and made a radical difference. Down there in the Berlin area in Amish country, down further south—Millersburg area? In through the front door and taken immediately down into the basement of this family home—a beautifully laid out basement—and to be confronted by a circle of chairs and the father and the mother and the aunts and the uncles and the brothers and the sisters and the cousins all gathered around, and all with hymnbooks.
And I was awestruck by it. And on the day of the burial itself—dramatic! None of that escapist stuff—no! They put the coffin right in the ground right there and then, and the members of the family, the children themselves, took shovels and gathered the dirt which they had previously raised on the outside of the hole and poured it in on the coffin of the loved one who was gone. And as they shoveled the dirt in, they sang hymns of praise. Now this is something different. And the Bible says, the latter is the case.
You see, in the issues of life and in the issues of death, in the great crossroads of human experience, Christianity must make a difference. Now, if I may just unpack this a little further, when Christianity speaks to this issue, it proclaims that God, in Christ, has come down from heaven in order that a number of things might happen.
This segues us into a little Advent message within, you know, the larger message. So, for those of you who, you know, came wanting a Thanksgiving message, I told you that you ought to be thankful for the resurrection; and those of you who came wanting an Advent message, here is your Advent message—and I have five points for you in your own Advent message, alright? Why did Jesus Christ come? He came to deliver us from our sins. You see, the devil loves it when we start all that stuff, using all our energy, and all our time, worrying about whether we have a nativity scene and a nativity scene there, as if somehow or another Jesus came to establish nativity scenes.
You believe that Christmas is coming around. Well, can you tell me why Jesus came? Thirdly, the reason the Son of God appeared was in order that the books of heaven might be cleared. Do you have any debt anywhere? Now, you see, this is good news for people. When I was a younger guy in Scotland and on Sunday afternoons, my father used to play these dreadful LPs on our little stereo … He used to put five and six on at a time and immediately go to sleep, and I stayed awake and had to endure it, and the only thing that would wake him up was if you turned the volume down; and so you had to keep the volume up to keep him asleep, but when you kept the volume up, then you had to listen to the thing.
And no matter what you have endeavored to do to wipe the record clean, you cannot do it. And that is where death holds its terror. So surely it is good news if there is one who has come, who by his death upon the cross would take and bear the brunt of all of our sin and of our rebellion, and by his blood would actually cleanse the record of all of my sin and my rebellion. Also, that he came in order that he might deliver us from every fear: the fear of judgment, the fear of the law, a servile fear of God, the fear of death itself—we noted that last time.
But if you ask people, they all want to live forever when it comes to the crunch. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. And some who are here this morning have never come to a personal, living faith in Jesus Christ, have never settled the issue of this great taboo subject of death, actually live tyrannized by it.
So why do you?